Comment on Sex Before Marriage among christians by Father Lawrence

Posted by Father Lawrence - June 19, 2008 on 4:18 am | In DiscussTheology.com | No Comments

I noticed that in asking the survey question; Did you wait until you were married to have sex? you did not mention the ancient Hebrew word “zanah” which translates-sexual idolatry and not fornication which comes from the Latin word fornix in the 14th century A.D. Variations of the word “zanah” also include caressing (the caressing of sexual organs of the male and female bodies). Sexual idolatry alludes to the rituals of orgies after the worship of heathen nations’ false gods. God’s meaning of “zanah” included all forms of sex whether it be the touching of a woman’s breasts (pettying), oral and anal sex as well as the act of sexual intercourse.

For a woman or man to take part in any sexual activity with or without an orgasm(s), they were guilty of sexual idolatry in the sight of God. Hence, one did not have to have sexual intercourse to lose their virginity. One only need to partake of any form of sex to lose their virginity. They were no longer sexually pure.

If this information were made known before taking the survey, you would have seen much higher percentages of those who had “sex” before marriage.

Bless you all for your work.

His Humble servant,
Father Lawrence

 



Comment on More on Kinnaman, “Unchristian” by John in TN

Posted by John in TN - May 28, 2008 on 7:46 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | No Comments

Whatever positive virtues the church may be appear have are mostly gutted by the “hypocritical” - more than anything this turns young people away. And, I think they are puzzled when the church is pro-gay!

 



Comment on 39% of Christianity Today readers leave church by JacobSchriftman

Posted by JacobSchriftman - May 2, 2008 on 8:51 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | No Comments

Thanks for sharing this info, Ron! Very interesting. I have a hard time relating to a particular church at the moment, too - and, if I did have to pick, would resonate with the Emergent movement perhaps more than with any other. I recently spoke on a DTS in which Emergent thought had a big influence. Seems to be spreading. If it creates a more open-minded, truth-loving, and relevant Christianity, I’m all for it.

 



Comment on Open Theism and God by Jonah4_4

Posted by Jonah4_4 - April 30, 2008 on 4:34 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | No Comments

Actually, Open Theists do not claim God’s future to be quite as open as their critics say they do. The knee-jerk reaction when learning of this idea (I know it was mine) is to go from thinking of a future securely and meticulously planned by God straight into a future busted wide open where God bumbles about aimlessly [kind of like us]. But this is not the picture that open theists describe. Neither do open theists have any trouble finding confidence in God despite the critics’ straw-man picture of a God powerless against the future. I think we can all agree that God is ULTIMATELY ABLE to do anything He wills to do. Open theists do not see that ultimate ability affected by an open future. God’s future is not so open that he can no longer WILL to do things, and He in no way loses the ABILITY to do as He wills.

 



Comment on More on Kinnaman, “Unchristian” by jasondcp

Posted by jasondcp - April 2, 2008 on 7:32 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | No Comments

Just one question?

Isn’t the unbelieving world suppose to look at us (The Church) with the wrong light? If only the Spiritual man can discern Spiritual things. Doesn’t this imply that none Spiritual people (Dead in their sins) would look at the church and not see her for what
she really is.
Also as a side note, we are the aroma of Christ, to those who are being saved we are an aroma of Life and to those who are perishing we are an aroma of death.

jason

 



Comment on Church Attendance, Emergence and where we are going by Tim Stoner

Posted by Tim Stoner - January 30, 2008 on 6:11 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

My son Jonathan, on staff for two years at Kona’s School of Digital Filmaking returned to tell us about a new church experience he and a fellow staffer had designed. They called it Starbuck’s Church. On Sunday, rather than head into the established ecclesiastical venues nearby, they, instead would go to pile into a friend’s Jeep, grab coffee while dowloading a Rob Bell sermon, then head out to drink, listend and gaze at the ocean. I told him I found it all utterly enticing, especially now in the middle of a Michigan blizzard that has closed down even the local colleges.

I live in Grand Rapids, the home of Rob and Mars Hill Church. I jokingly say I was Emergent before it was cool and now that it is, I’m not. I’m a lawyer and an author. Nav Press is releasing my book: The God Who Smokes the day after Valentine’s. I wanted to alert you that Nav will be sending you a free copy. If the University of the Nations is the correct address.) I wrote it for Jonathan, and my three other 20-something children and their friends. I appreciate most of its critique, it is its theological (or anti-theological) trajectory that gives me great pause.

The God Who Smokes, could properly be called an autobiographical (personal narrative) theological primer for the X- Gen. It is meant to provide a solid place to stand for those intrigued, or compelled, by Emergent Theology’s deconstruction of orthodoxy. But, because I take seriously the need to “sneak past the watchful dragons” as C.S. Lewis advises, the oblique critique is artfully (I trust) wrapped inside stories of me growing up as a fundamentalist missionary kid on several continents. It also talks about sex, art, beauty and our inconsolable longing for Father and Home. And, because many in that demographic carry a deep father-wound each chapter ends with a father’s blessing.

I would be honored for you to read it and provide a response. I am hoping that it could be of spiritual profit for the students who are being impacted by the teaching of the SBS.

Tim Stoner

 



Harald Bredesen dies

Posted by Ron - January 8, 2008 on 8:28 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Dec. 29, 2007

Harald went to be with the Lord.  He was a beacon to many of us about how to walk in the Spirit.  He will be missed greatly.  To see his ceremony of tribute go to the blog link on my web site for Pat Robertson.

 



Top 10 Blog Posts on Christianity Today for 2007

Posted by Ron - January 1, 2008 on 10:12 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

December 27, 2007

Top 10 Posts of 2007

A year ago on this blog it seemed hard to imagine that 2007 would surpass 2006 in traffic and participation, but that is exactly what happened. Thanks to the thousands of Ur-banites that read this blog everyday and drive the conversation, 2007 has been the best since Out of Ur launched in ’04. Thanks for sharing your time and insights with us. You’ve made this blog an engaging place to discuss the intersection of ministry, culture, and theology.

Here are the top ten posts from 2007. These were not determined by the editors, but by Ur’s visitors. These are the posts which received the most traffic and provoked the most comments.

ONE
Willow Creek Repents?
Why the most influential church in America now says “We made a mistake.”

TWO
Heresy on Tour?
Popular pastor/author Rob Bell’s controversial message: God loves you.

THREE
Gordon MacDonald’s 2008 Questions

FOUR
Willow Creek Repents? (Part 2)
Greg Hawkins responds with the truth about REVEAL.

FIVE
So Many Infant Christians
Why are we so good at leading people to faith and so bad at prodding them to maturity?

SIX
Sayonara, Senior Pastor

SEVEN
Goodbye Religion, Hello Spirituality
Is there a place for the Christian “religion” in the 21st Century?

EIGHT
Thus Saith the Radio
Does Christian radio have more influence over your flock than you do?

NINE
Alien Nation
One pastor’s perspective on the immigration debate—and immigration opportunity.

TEN
A Former Pastor Goes Church Shopping
And he wrestles with the advantages and disadvantages of mainline and nondenominational churches.

 



Merry Christmas, In Praise of Joseph

Posted by Ron - December 24, 2007 on 8:26 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

My pastor spoke about the faithfulness of Joseph in the Christmas story on Sunday and edified me greatly.  He emphasized that Joseph really says nothing in the Christmas story mentioned about him in Mt. 1:18-25.  He is simply there and faithful.  Our pastor continued that  this kind of faithfulness is something the church needs more of.

 



YWAM, Los Angeles Times, Colorado shootings

Posted by Ron - December 20, 2007 on 7:12 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off Who or what is YWAM? An excellent piece was produced by the Los Angeles Times newspaper which you can read here:

 



Dollar Falls and effects Missionary Support

Posted by Ron - December 20, 2007 on 8:54 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Christianity Today quoted the following:

Baptist Press reported on how Southern Baptist missionaries are responding to the falling dollar.

 



D A Carson on N T Wright

Posted by Ron - December 3, 2007 on 5:01 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Carson has a great 3 part feature on iTunes U addressing a forum at Reformed theological Seminary.

 



Great stuff on iTunes U

Posted by Ron - December 3, 2007 on 5:00 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

I have thought I might tell all of my cohorts that I am going back to seminary-on iTunes.  The new iTunes U feature is wonderful.  Both Reformed Theological Seminary on itunes U and Covenant Theological Seminary on the podcasts are delivering whole semesters for free to anyone interested in learning.–So, I am back in seminary.  I just finished listening to 39 lectures by Prof.  Douglas Kelly at RTS on Systematic Theology.  It was very edifying.

 



A Crisis in Reading, Death of a Culture

Posted by Ron - November 19, 2007 on 10:14 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Fox News reported this a.m. that reading is going down in our culture among youth.  Even among college grads, only 31% read a book in the last year.

 



A Reason not to go to San Diego

Posted by Ron - November 16, 2007 on 4:53 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off
Postcard from San Diego: Fighting ‘Bibliolatry’ at the Evangelical Theological Society
Talbot’s J.P. Moreland warns that evangelicals are “over-committed to the Bible.”
Ted Olsen

While the ballroom sessions of the first day of the Evangelical Theological Society meeting had more attendees, no session was as packed as J.P. Moreland’s “How Evangelicals Became Over-Committed to the Bible and What Can Be Done About It.” While the average breakout session seems to be attended by fewer than 50 people, easily more than 200 packed the room to hear Moreland’s talk, with dozens standing and more listening outside the door.

——————————————

I think I will listen to some of the book of Daniel on my iPod.–Ron

 



Senate Investigations and the Fear of God

Posted by Ron - November 15, 2007 on 8:25 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Christianity Today reported that:

Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley, head of the Senate Finance Committee, sent letters yesterday to six ministries—those led by Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Eddie Long, Joyce Meyer, and Randy and Paula White—demanding detailed accounts of spending practices. None of the ministries must file the IRS financial disclosure Form 990 because they are designated as churches.

I think if there is some kind of vendetta that someone is carrying against these six ministries, the fear of God in the literal sense is in order now.  Agree or disagree with these people, Paul the apostle would praise God that they are preaching the gospel.  If someone is paying someone back politically for something in all of this, the Bible shows that God has a way of making life very uncomfortable for the guilty party.  Our posture in all of this, in my opinion, would be to pray for these brothers and sisters.

 



Articles on Justification

Posted by Ron - November 10, 2007 on 10:10 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

As Christianity Today points us toward the upcoming Evangelical Theological Society meeting in San Diego a few day from now, they also pointed us to some other articles on justification and the New Perspectives on Paul.

Related Elsewhere:

Further Reading on the New Perspective” accompanies this article.

A recent Christianity Today editorial outlined why justification by faith alone is still Protestants’ defining doctrine.

The Paul Page has original articles and interviews about the new perspective on Paul, as well as links to journal articles, books, and other materials around the web.

Scot McKnight has also blogged about the new perspective in Jesus Creed.

The Wall Street Journal published John Wilson’s op-ed on N.T. Wright and the new perspective.

Many of N. T. Wright’s papers and sermons on Paul are available on an unofficial site.

Simon Gathercole’s “After the New Perspective: Works, Justification and Boasting in Early Judaism and Romans 1-5” is available online.

Other Christianity Today articles on theology and justification include:

Declaration: Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

Nothing But the Blood | More and more evangelicals believe Christ’s atoning death is merely a grotesque creation of the medieval imagination. Really? (May 1, 2006)

Sticking Points | Despite recent rapprochement, evangelicals and Catholics remain far apart on key issues. (December 2005)

The Gospel of Jesus Christ | An introduction to “The Gospel of Jesus Christ: An Evangelical Celebration.”(David Neff, February 1, 2000)

You Can’t Keep a Justified Man Down | An interview with N. T. Wright, author of The Resurrection of the Son of God. (April 1, 2003)

CT Classic: Are We Speaking the Same Language? | What Catholics really believe about justification—and why defining our terms makes all the difference. (November 1, 1999)

Reformation Day Celebrations Ain’t What They Used to Be | The Lutheran-Catholic Justification Declaration is a good step, but it’s only a beginning. (November 1, 1999)

Theology: Does The Gift of Salvation Sell Out the Reformation? | The recent statement from evangelical and Roman Catholic leaders on the Christian doctrine of justification “sells out” the Reformation, according to James Boice, chairman of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals (ACE). (April 27, 1998)

Paid in Full | The sacrifice of Calvary was not a part payment; it was a complete and perfect payment. (Charles H. Spurgeon, February 9, 1998)

Should Catholics and Evangelicals Join Ranks? | A recent document entitled Evangelicals and Catholics Together gives a resounding yes to this question. (July 18, 1994)
Also: Why I Signed it, Parts 1 and 2

 



5 Kinds of Christians in America

Posted by Ron - November 8, 2007 on 10:04 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

5 Kinds of Christians
Understanding the disparity of those who call themselves Christian in America

Check this article out at www.christianitytoday.com

 



Who will weep for Burma and Sudan?

Posted by Ron - October 3, 2007 on 9:11 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

UN Council Can’t Agree on Darfur Protest

Email this Story

Oct 1, 11:03 PM (ET)

By EDITH M. LEDERER

UNITED NATIONS (AP) - The U.N. Security Council on Monday failed to agree on a formal condemnation of a surprise attack that killed 10 peacekeepers in Darfur with an envoy saying members disagree on whether to call it a terrorist act by rebels.Ghana’s U.N. Ambassador Leslie Christian, the current council president, said members will meet again on Tuesday to work on a presidential statement - which becomes part of the official council record.

He told reporters in a brief press statement - which does not become part of the council’s official record - that members condemn the attack, deplore the 10 deaths and injuries to 14 peacekeepers, and want the perpetrators identified and brought to justice.

“The reason we couldn’t come to an agreement,” said South Africa’s U.N. Ambassador Dumisani Kumalo, “was because most of us feel that this was a terrorist act” and every report says it was done by rebels, but some council members argued that they wanted to wait for the results of an investigation to find out what happened.

Myanmar Troops Stage Nighttime Arrests

Email this Story

Oct 3, 5:33 PM (ET)

People living near the Shwedagon Pagoda, Myanmar’s most revered shrine and a flash point of unrest during the protests, reported that security forces swept through several dozen homes about 3 a.m., taking away many men and even some women for questioning.

A U.N. Development Program employee, Myint Nwe Moe, and her husband, brother-in-law and driver were among those detained, the U.N. agency said.

Now Podcasting on iTunes, click the search engine for “School of Biblical Studies”
non-iPod mp3 players can download us from www.sbsinternational.org/podcast

 



A Christianity Today poll on how many Bibles we own

Posted by Ron - September 20, 2007 on 7:32 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off
Poll

Christianity Today Poll
How many Bibles do you own?
I don’t have any.

0%
One or two.

3%
Three to six.

22%
More than six.

23%
More than ten.

37%
More than I can remember.

15%


Total Votes: 1164

This is somewhat sobering for people considering getting Bibles to tribes that have none.

 



Comment on Justification, Christianity Today and the “new” Perspective by jonas

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - August 11, 2007 on 4:07 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

I found the CT article good in many ways. And I agree with the author that NP adherents often seem to reduce “works of the law” to national identity markers (sabbath, circumcision and kosher) in a wrong way. Surely, works of the law and “establishing a righteousness of their own” includes the tendency to try to earn merit before God through good and upright behaviour. And it is extremely important that we understand this. However, the author’s view of OT righteousness is problematic. This is what he says:

“In the Old Testament, “righteousness” is the status that an Israelite received when he or she fully observed the requirements of the law: “And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness” (Deut. 6:25). The tragedy of the covenant, however, is that despite God’s glorious provision of redemption and of his Torah, the Israelites often behaved just like Gentiles. Stiff-necked and hard-hearted, they rebelled against God. They never attained the status of righteousness, which they would have possessed had they lived up to the ideal in Deuteronomy.”

So, the author believes that the way to become righteus before God in Old Testament times was not through faith but perfect obedience to the letter of the law? It is clear to me that the cluster of questions around the law, works, faith, obedience and righteousness can not be adequately answered with that kind of misunderstanding lurking in the background.

Any comment on this issue?

Blessings on ya all!

Jonas

 



Justification, Christianity Today and the “new” Perspective

Posted by Ron - August 10, 2007 on 4:25 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

The times have not really changed that much since Luther’s day.  It is refreshing to see that the editors of Christianity Today still get it about the central importance of justification for christianity.

 



Comment on Martin Luther, teachers, justification by jonas

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - June 2, 2007 on 6:27 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Dear brother (and everyone else reading this),

Since the name of NT Wright is so often mentioned here, though very little of what he actually has written is commented upon, I thought it might me good to clarify his position with his own words. This is what Wright is saying about the doctrine of justification in The New Dictionary of Theology. Maybe this article can fuel the discussion and function as a reference here?

Justification

(Originally published in New Dictionary of Theology. David F. Wright, Sinclair B. Ferguson, J.I. Packer (eds), 359-361. IVP. Reproduced by permission of the author.)

JUSTIFICATION denotes, primarily, that action in the lawcourt whereby a judge upholds the case of one party in dispute before him (in the Hebrew lawcourt, where the image originates, all cases consist of an accuser and a defendant, there being no public prosecutor). Having heard the case, the judge finds in favour of one party, and thereby ‘justifies’ him: if he finds for the defendant, this action has the force of ‘acquittal’. The person justified is described as ‘just’, ‘righteous’ (on the terminology, see Righteousness), not as a description of moral character but as a statement of his status before the court (which will, ideally, be matched by character, but that is not the point).

Since this lawcourt imagery is used in Scripture to elucidate God’s dealings with Israel, his covenant people, ‘justification’ comes to denote God’s action in restoring the fortunes of Israel after she has been oppressed: it is as though Israel, or a faithful individual within Israel, is the innocent defendant in a trial (see Pss. 43:1; 135:14; Is. 50:8; Lk. 18:7), whose cause will be upheld by the righteous covenant God. As Israel’s troubles increase in the period after the exile, it becomes increasingly clear that what is needed is a final day of judgment, when God will right all wrongs, and vindicate his people, once and for all. This notion, which is closely correlated with the hope of resurrection (God’s vindication of Israel after her suffering) is staunchly upheld in the NT.

At the same time, in the NT Israel’s expectation is radically redefined. In his welcome for outcasts and sinners, Jesus enacts God’s vindication of (apparently) the wrong group in Israel — the poor, the humble. This man [the tax-collector], rather than the other [the Pharisee], went home justified before God’ (Lk. 18:14). In continuity with his paradoxical ministry, Jesus goes to the cross apparently condemned by God. The resurrection, however, is quickly seen by the disciples as God’s ‘vindication’ or ‘justification’ of Jesus (e.g. Acts 3:14-15, 26; 1 Tim. 3:16). God has finally acted, within history, to identify his covenant people, and it turns out that Jesus, ‘the king of the Jews’, has alone represented that people.

Justification in Paul and James

Although, therefore, the doctrine of justification is discussed quite rarely in the NT, the fact of it is everywhere apparent. God has redefined his covenant people around Jesus. The entire Christian mission is built on this foundation. It is left to Paul, however, to articulate this conviction fully and draw out its implications: and he does so at the appropriate point, i.e. when the question of the identity of the covenant people is raised (Rom. 3:21 - 4:25; 9:30 - 10:13; Gal. passim; Phil. 3:2-11). Five points need to be observed here.

1. The question of justification is a matter of covenant membership. The underlying question in (for instance) Gal. 3 and 4 is: Who are the true children of Abraham? Paul’s answer is that membership belongs to all who believe in the gospel of Jesus, whatever their racial or moral background.

2. The basis of this verdict is the representative death and resurrection of Jesus himself. In view of universal sin, God can only be in covenant with human beings if that sin is dealt with, and this has been achieved by God himself in the death of his Son (Rom. 3:24-26; 5:8-9). Jesus takes on himself the curse which would have prevented God’s promised blessing finding fulfilment (Gal. 3:10-14). The resurrection is God’s declaration that Jesus, and hence his people, are in the right before God (Rom. 4:24-25).

3. The verdict issued in the present on the basis of faith (Rom. 3:21-26) correctly anticipates the verdict to be issued in the final judgment on the basis of the total life (Rom. 2:1-16, on which see Cranfield, Romans, vol. 1, pp. 151-153). This future ‘verdict’ is in fact, seen from another angle, simply resurrection itself (Phil. 3:9-11). The logic of this ‘eschatological’ perspective is explained as follows: faith is itself the sign of God’s life-giving work, by his Spirit (1 Cor. 12:3), and what God has begun he will complete (Phil. 1:6).

4. Justification thus establishes the church as a new entity, the renewed Israel, now qualitatively distinct from Jew and Greek alike, transcending racial and social barriers (Gal. 3:28). The sharp edge of this point, for Paul, was the conviction not only that pagan converts to Christianity did not need to become Jews in order fully to belong to God’s people, but also that the attempt to do so was in itself a renunciation of the gospel, implying that Christ’s achievement was insufficient or even unnecessary (Gal. 2:21; 5:4—6). At the same time, Paul warns pagan converts against the opposite mistake, that of imagining Jews to be now cut off without hope — the mirror image of the characteristic Jewish mistake, and one which some post-Reformation theology has not always avoided (Rom. 11:13-24).

5. ‘Justification by faith’ is thus a shorthand for ‘justification by grace through faith’, and in Paul’s thought at least has nothing to do with a suspicious attitude towards good behaviour. On the contrary: Paul expects his converts to live in the manner appropriate for members of the covenant (Rom. 6, etc.), and this is in fact necessary if faith is not to appear a sham (2 Cor. 13:5). His polemic against ‘works of the law’ is not directed against those who attempted to earn covenant membership through keeping the Jewish law (such people do not seem to have existed in the 1st century) but against those who sought to demonstrate their membership in the covenant through obeying the Jewish law. Against these people Paul argues a. that the law cannot in fact be kept perfectly — it merely shows up sin; and b. that this attempt would reduce the covenant to a single race, those who possess the Jewish law, whereas God desires a world-wide family (Rom. 3:27-31; Gal. 3:15-22). This means that Jas. 2:14-26 is not in conflict with Paul, but expresses the same truth from a different perspective. The ‘faith’ which is insufficient is bare Jewish monotheism (Jas. 2:19); and Abraham’s faith, through which God declared him within the covenant in Gn. 15 (Jas. 2:23), was simply ‘fulfilled’ in the later incident of Gn. 22 (Jas. 2:21).

New developments

With the disappearance of Paul’s particular polemical situation, it was likely that the doctrine of justification would be reapplied in new ways, and this happened with its development as the over-all view of how one becomes a Christian — a much wider notion than the very precise NT usage. Allied to the medieval view of God’s righteousness as iustitia distributiva (see Righteousness), this encouraged a belief in good works as the means by which one earns merit or favour with God. In reacting against this, Luther never totally avoided the risk of making faith a substitute for works, and hence itself a meritorious performance on man’s part. His failure to note the Jewish, covenantal and eschatological content of Paul’s doctrine led to exegetical difficulties (e.g. the meaning of Rom. 2 and Rom. 9-11) and theological problems (the danger of a dualistic rejection of the law, and the difficulty of providing a thorough foundation for ethics) which have beset subsequent Protestantism. In particular, popular Protestantism has often more or less elided the distinction between justification and regeneration, using ‘justification by faith’ as a slogan for a romantic or existentialist view of Christianity, rightly criticized by Roman Catholics. Roman Catholic views of justification have continued to be influenced by Augustine, who saw it as God’s action in making people righteous, through pouring into their hearts love towards himself. This stress on the actual change which God effects in the sinner has continued into modern Roman Catholic theology. The result of this is significantly to broaden the reference of the word, to include far more than Paul (or the Reformers) intended.

Current debates

Current debates about ‘justification’ have tended to raise much wider issues than the specific concerns of Paul, and modern ecumenical agreement on the subject (cf. Küng), while welcome in its own right, does not always do justice to the nuances of biblical teaching. Thus, for instance, for Paul it is not the doctrine of justification that is ‘the power of God for salvation’ (Rom. 1:16), but the gospel of Jesus Christ. As Hooker noted, it is perfectly possible to be saved by believing in Jesus Christ without ever having heard of justification by faith. What that doctrine provides is the assurance that, though Christian obedience is still imperfect, the believer is already a full member of God’s people. It establishes, in consequence, the basis and motive for love (and true obedience) towards God. The teaching of present justification is thus a central means whereby the fruits of the Spirit — love, joy, peace and the rest — may be produced.

Bibliography

J. Buchanan, The Doctrine of Justification (repr. London, 1961); C. E. B. Cranfield, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, 2 vols. (Edinburgh, 1975, 1979); Richard Hooker, Sermon on Justification (1612), in Works, ed. I. Walton (London, 1822, etc.); H. Küng, Justification: The Doctrine of Karl Barth and a Catholic Reflection (London, 1964); A. E. McGrath, Iustitia Dei: A History of the Christian Doctrine of Justification, 2 vols. (Cambridge, 1986); G. Reid (ed.). The Great Acquittal (London, 1980); J. Reumann, ‘Righteousness’ in the New Testament: ‘Justification’ in the United States Lutheran-Roman Catholic Dialogue, with responses by J. A. Fitzmyer and J. D. Quinn (Philadelphia, 1982); H. N. Ridderbos, Paul: An Outline of His Theology (ET, Grand Rapids, MI, 1975).

 



Comment on Justification, what is it?-Beckwith resigns by jasondcp

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - May 20, 2007 on 6:01 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

I’ve read many a bio on Luther, and I would agree that, words would fly. Some people disagree with the vocabulary used by Luther at times, but intense times sometimes call for intense usage of Language. So were are our Luther’s today? I know of some who stand and let there voices be heard, but were are the rest? I pray that Wright would repent of this sin, and turn back to God. Please, as you hear about theses fellow evangelicals who fall and lead others astray, Pray for them, Pray to a sovereign God who is able to bring them back. Also pray, and give God thanks, that if it wasn’t for God’s perseverance in our lives, and his grace we also would be deceived.

jason.

 



Comment on Wow, ETS President Beckwith goes to Catholicism by jasondcp

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - May 20, 2007 on 5:45 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

This isn’t the 1st time I’ve heard about Evangelical leaders returning to Rome.
In one of the main resurgence of Rome Catholicism mag… there was an article about 5 Protestant’s returning to Rome. The main reason given was an inability to believe Sole Scriptura, that is Scripture alone as the final authority. If the Evangelical community keeps hacking away at the Authority, Honor, Integrity and life of Gods word, then this is only a taste of what is to come. My heart breaks for those 5 individuals and for Bickwith, It’s as if were standing on the shores of the Red Sea, and some of the Israelites, in light of the Pressure want to turn again into Slavery….

This should be a warning for us who hold to Solo Scriptura, or the other four tenets of the Reformation… it’s a slippery Slop back to Slavery…and it’s not physical slavery but Spiritual, and the life and destinies of individuals are at stake, and most important the GLORY OF GOD, God is most satisfied in us when were most satisfied in Him, and the main way we know this God, is through His Word. God’s word is a bulwark against sin, against false doctrine, against the lies of the devil. So if the church steps out from behind the Bible, there’s no protection for her.

 



Comment on More thoughts on unrest in Reformationland by JQ

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - May 11, 2007 on 3:43 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Dear Bro!

I can tell that N.T. Wright´s writings have become pretty controversial in the US! Of course Wright’s view on the theology of Paul in general and the doctrine of justification in particular has disturbed some evangelicals also here in Europe but to the extent that seem to be the case in your great contry. I wonder why that is, escpecially since lutheran theology never has been as near as strong in the US as it has been in Europe.

I just wanted to comment on the concept on the “reformation” in conjunction with Wright. Since I do not think that he is in disagreement with the reformation so much as with some aspect of the lutheran wing of the reformation. Really, his view on the law, which is important here, is in line with Calvin and basic reformed doctrine. Lutheran theology always have had a difficult time with viewing the law as good and as a guiding light for christians. In various degrees lutherans, historically speaking, have viewed the law as only an instrument to lead sinners to understanding their utter and complete sinfulness before God. As you well know, this is not Calvin’s view. In fact, I believe that the reformed tradition more faithfully represent a biblical and hebrew understanding of the law, which also should lead to a healthy suspicion of the traditional lutheran understanding of jewish theology in NT times as “legailistic” in the ethical sense of equating moral living with salvation. I understand Wright’s reading of Paul, building to an extant on Sanders and Stendahl of course, as trying to come to grips with the doctrine of justification without this misunderstanding of jewish theology in NT times.

I do not intend to elaborate on this, but it strikes me as odd that american evangelicals, with a basic reformed perspective on the law, are so upset with Wright while european evangelical, with more of a mix of lutheran and reformed views on the law, are more positive. Generally speaking that is. And I must confess that I lack good and solid arguments from the critics. It is simply not enough to refer to the reformation, or “history”, where are the exegetical and theological arguments? Also, being myself an evangelical who appreciate much of Wright’s work, sometimes it seems to me that many critics really have not read Wright as well as the should have. Or they read him just to confirm that he is somew kind of semi-pelagian liveral theologian, which he is not (and I can say that from having studying many years at a liberal theological department of theology).

So, in concluding, why not bring forth more solid arguments? Maybe we can in this way have a discussion that can challenge both sides of the conversation?

In Christ,

Jonas

 



Comment on Roger Nicole’s conclusions about Greg Boyd’s book on open theism by drpuritan

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - May 1, 2007 on 5:04 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Just a note to let you know that I have published the authorized biography of Roger Nicole, Speaking the Truth in Love: The Life and Legacy of Roger Nicole (Solid Ground Christian Books, 2006). I hope you enjoy it! It is available from Amazon, Books-A-Million, Cumberland Valley and the publisher, Solid Ground.

 



Comment on Roger Nicole’s conclusions about Greg Boyd’s book on open theism by drpuritan

Posted by drpuritan - May 1, 2007 on 5:04 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | No Comments

Just a note to let you know that I have published the authorized biography of Roger Nicole, Speaking the Truth in Love: The Life and Legacy of Roger Nicole (Solid Ground Christian Books, 2006). I hope you enjoy it! It is available from Amazon, Books-A-Million, Cumberland Valley and the publisher, Solid Ground.

 



Comment on An Intro. to Open Theism and Open Theists by hosel

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - April 28, 2007 on 1:47 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

hosel…

Are you sure of that?…

 



Comment on An Intro. to Open Theism and Open Theists by hosel

Posted by hosel - April 28, 2007 on 1:47 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | No Comments

hosel…

Are you sure of that?…

 



Comment on More theology from Mars by pappy48195

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - April 5, 2007 on 10:29 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

Why don’t you scholars see that Paul was an apocalypticist, and was expecting Christ to soon return(in his lifetime), and, that his concern with a bodily resurrection only was connected to that coming event. This hope of his has nothing to do with faith and life- it is only about the immanent return of Christ to establish the Kingdom of God, which was the main theme of Christ’s earthly ministry as well.

 



Comment on Sing to the Tune of Immortal, Invisible [Open theism, open theists, openness] by teetering

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - March 28, 2007 on 8:03 pm | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

teetering…

I dont believe it. Where is the proof?…

 



Comment on Last official Spanish execution for heresy by Linda

Posted by Comments for Discuss Theology - March 7, 2007 on 1:53 am | In DiscussTheology.com | Comments Off

It’s been well-known for a while that the Catholic Church is guilty of Mary worship. And the murder of a man of God who had the guts to exalt GOD instead of Mary is even more proof that the Catholic Church’s heart lies with Mary, not God.